Assignees for languages

Claim a language below by adding your signature at the end! Please follow this format when signing:

* language{{someone else's sig}}~~~~

Just add your signature at the end of the same line, no matter how many other signatures have come before.

If you think you can help create tutorials for a language, please claim it! Claiming it does not exclude others from also claiming it :)
Kenny2scratch logo.jpg kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory 
03:32, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

The Ruby Tutorial

I started writing tutorials for Ruby: Variables, Arrays, and Hashes and Data Types. :)
Bigpuppy Logo.png bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:34, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

What?

I don't understand this. It just says that the Wiki has tutorials of other languages compared to Scratch and an empty category area. I also feel like this night need to be moved to the Scratch Wiki namespace before it is finished.
CrazyBoy826-Icon.png CrazyBoy826 Talk | Contribs | Scratch account
16:09, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

This isn't done — see info here. :)
Bigpuppy Logo.png bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 16:29, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
Your 3.0 Articles idea is a meta-idea, i.e. it applies to the Wiki itself. Therefore it goes in the Scratch Wiki namespace. However, this is a mainspace idea - it's a series of new articles comparing other programming languages with Scratch. The main index definitely needs to be expanded, and I've added {{expand}} to that effect. If you know any other programming languages well, you can add a tutorial comparing it with Scratch.
Kenny2scratch logo.jpg kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory 
03:08, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
OK.
CrazyBoy826-Icon.png CrazyBoy826 Talk | Contribs | Scratch account
22:33, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

PHP

I started working on a PHP article. I'm not sure of the name I gave it is good.
Millie S.jpeg Millie S (talk|961 contribs|directory) 01:50, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

I think the name works, based on what the article is about. :)
Bigpuppy Logo.png bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 17:31, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes Done by bigpuppy.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 20:59, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

?

I don't understand why this wiki has anything to do with other programming languages outside of scratch. Is there any reason behind having this?
God286 (talk | contribs) 04:19, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

It's meant to be a comparison of other languages and Scratch, in the process teaching how the languages work. For example, Language Tutorials/Python/Strings, Numbers, Lists which compares Python's methods with Scratch's blocks.
Kenny2scratch logo.jpg kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory 
08:57, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Is this still alive?

This seems like an awesome project and I would love if this continued! Just a question though, are you guys still working on this?
Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 15:24, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I am in the middle of writing a JavaScript article actually!
VFDan.png VFDan  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  23:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Can I also create an article?

I saw that there are no Java tutorials here yet... Can I be assigned? Maybe I can create Lua tutorials alongside with it.
Dilek's Wiki Signature Picture.pngDilek10-Talk-Contribs-Profile Page 10:23, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes I've added you to the "Assigned" list. :)
Bigpuppy Logo.png bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 06:48, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

These tutorials are useful

A {{NotUseful}} template was added to this page. I would like to politely disagree with the template. After someone has learned all about Scratch and its various blocks, they will probably want to learn (an)other programming language(s). There are other online resources for learning programming languages, but this is a chance for them to learn the similarities and differences between their "native" language and the programming language they wish to learn. Thus, I believe it is related to Scratch. If a page violates a policy, I think you should fix it instead of declaring the whole category "not useful." I think that this category of pages is a great idea, and I hope you can understand why I think this. :)
Bigpuppy Logo.png bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 06:43, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I did not mean to imply that comparing Scratch to other languages is not useful. Both of the current projects I have uploaded do exactly this. However, this is not being accomplished in a useful way. What is being done currently is not a wiki article, but a "tutorial". And, you are creating miniature "C wiki", "JavaScript wiki", "R wiki" wikis inside of the Scratch wiki. I think that the goal of comparing other languages to Scratch is useful, but is being done wrong (especially not with second person and such), and would be much better off as wiki articles (for example, the pages like C, JavaScript, and R can be created which have basic examples comparing them to Scratch, which is much more encyclopedic than long strings of pages, the majority of which are entirely unrelated to Scratch and go against things such as second person and such. While I believe that what you are doing can be wikified, what this is in its current state, is, in fact, not useful.
Naleksuh.jpg Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 06:54, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your detailed reply! I'm splitting up my response to use quotes from your message, as shown below. Keep in mind that this is my opinion. :)
  • I did not mean to imply that comparing Scratch to other languages is not useful. Both of the current projects I have uploaded do exactly this. However, this is not being accomplished in a useful way.
    • Thanks for the clarification. :)
  • What is being done currently is not a wiki article, but a "tutorial".
    • There are many tutorials on the wiki. Does the fact that they are tutorials make them less useful? I'd say no, it does not make them less useful.
  • And, you are creating miniature "C wiki", "JavaScript wiki", "R wiki" wikis inside of the Scratch wiki.
    • I don't really think so. We are creating tutorial series for each of those languages.
  • I think that the goal of comparing other languages to Scratch is useful, but is being done wrong (especially not with second person and such), ...
    • As noted in this edit summary, second-person is sometimes okay to use in tutorials. From S:PRO: "Never use first person ("I", "we", "let's") and avoid second person ("you", "your") as much as possible, unless the entire article is a tutorial, in which case it should still be used sparingly. Sound professional; these are not blogs or forum posts."
  • ... and would be much better off as wiki articles (for example, the pages like C, JavaScript, and R can be created which have basic examples comparing them to Scratch, which is much more encyclopedic than long strings of pages, ...
    • I think that having tutorials like this may be more useful than trying to be 100% "encyclopedic." Yes, we are a professional encyclopedia, but I think it's also important to remember our audience. It's mainly kids who want to learn to code.^
  • ... the majority of which are entirely unrelated to Scratch and go against things such as second person and such.
    • I already addressed the "unrelated to Scratch" part in my original message; we are comparing these programming languages to Scratch, so I believe it is related to Scratch. I addressed the issue of second-person in an earlier bullet point.
  • While I believe that what you are doing can be wikified, what this is in its current state, is, in fact, not useful.
    • I disagree. I am not trying to be harsh, but as I see it, not being 100% like what a wiki "should be like" in your opinion does not make these tutorials "not useful." What would be more useful for a kid learning to code: these tutorials as they are now, or these tutorials deleted? Yes, you might create the C, JavaScript, R, etc. pages to replace them, but I still think that a tutorial format is a good format for these pages, especially considering our audience.
Please keep in mind that my goal is not to be harsh or disrespectful in any of the bullet points above, but simply to state my opinion clearly. :)
^Yes, I am making an assumption about our audience; however, since Scratch's target audience is 8-16, I think it *may* be a fair assumption.
Bigpuppy Logo.png bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 07:31, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
"There are many tutorials on the wiki. Does the fact that they are tutorials make them less useful?" General tutorials can easily become encyclopedia articles.
"I don't really think so. We are creating tutorial series for each of those languages." This is even worse. Comparing other languages to Scratch, maybe, but not just going on and on about all the details of one particular language across multiple pages.
"As noted in this edit summary, second-person is sometimes okay to use in tutorials. " S:EC allows it, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Second person is catastrophic.
"I think that having tutorials like this may be more useful than trying to be 100% "encyclopedic."" Well, I guess this is what it all boils down to. I do not believe that encyclopedic quality should be sacrificed just because these tutorials maybe useful to someone (usefulness is not the only criteria for inclusion, S:STARTREK). The main options would be either wikifying the tutorials into individual articles instead of long strings of subpages, which about maybe a third of them even mention Scratch, or to simply remove them entirely and let people use them on another website. I would personally go for the first option, as I do believe the information can be benefitted from, but through wiki articles and not 'tutorials' ie.
Naleksuh.jpg Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 07:54, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Again, this is my own and not an EW's opinion.
Scratch is designed to be an educational programming language. As such, it is expected to see people leaving Scratch and migrating to other programming languages. This tutorial is mainly for those people, as well as people who understand other languages and want to learn Scratch.
As for the use of second person - I'm not a native speaker (despite being kinda fluent in English), and I can understand how the second person helps. Articles that use bad third person (such as replacing you to one) is worse than articles with second person, and it can be used to describe instructions - for example, "If you have problems with floating points, you can use Decimal to calculate more precisely" vs "Decimal can be used to solve problems with floating points". Or "You can eat apples" vs "Apples are edible" - tutorials are conversations between the reader and the page. It descibes what you, the reader, can do while other articles describe what the feature can do.
What is S:STARTREK?
Logo of Apple502j.jpg Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,213edit 14:44, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Its funny because the second one is way more understandable in both of those examples. Either way, point here is that using scratch wiki to dump tutorials is not a good idea and the goal here is not being accomplished way, and a generalized version in article pages would be much more useful.
Naleksuh.jpg Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 01:06, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I think two things need to be clarified: tutorials and the relation of Scratch with other languages. Tutorials make up a huge amount of the wiki and help Scratchers learn about coding. Tutorials are articles but instructive, not informative. You will learn more through a short tutorial than a massive article on the same subject because you actively learning something. And a wiki's whole purpose is to help people learn about subjects, yes? As for the relativity between Scratch and different langauges, they are a very important subject and must be addressed in this wiki. When the LLK created Scratch, their intention was to teach people how to code. In reality, Scratch is not as powerful as C or JavaScript, however it is easy to learn. Once you understand Scratch, you will probably understand about a large variety of programming concepts, such as booleans or lists; so you will be ready to face harder and more powerful languages. I think that these tutorials should be promoted, not rejected. They will help people developing their coding skills, while still in the safe Scratch enviroment, remember, writing the code can be done completely offline, all you need is a bash console, which all computers have and text writing software.
ContourLines Logo.png ContourLines Talk | Contributions | Directory 07:56, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Regardless, even if the tutorials do have merit I do not believe the wiki is the appropriate place to put them (other places could arguably be much more useful).
Naleksuh.jpg Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:29, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Although, it is fine, they do not break the Editing Conventions or Wiki Guidelines in any way.
ContourLines Logo.png ContourLines Talk | Contributions | Directory 06:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
even if the tutorials do have merit I do not believe the wiki is the appropriate place to put them (other places could arguably be much more useful). Could you please constructively explain why?
R4356th (talk | contribs) 16:18, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
To Naleksuh: Where else would the tutorials be? The wiki is the only official source of information about Scratch.
VFDan.png VFDan  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  17:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
But it isn't though. Scratch itself hosts multiple tutorials, people write tutorials on the forums (unfortunately), and multiple third-party websites exist besides the wiki. I think there are plenty of places to put tutorials besides the wiki (which again wikis are not a good place to put tutorials from the beginning).
Naleksuh.jpg Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:36, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────What is wrong with tutorials being on the wiki? How is this not the best place to put that information? They are still articles, but instructive, not informative. And this is Scratch's main source of information, the tutorials on the website are for beginners and there technically shouldn't be any tutorials on the forums because there is no category for it.
ContourLines Logo.png ContourLines Talk | Contributions | Directory 06:15, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

"What is wrong with tutorials being on the wiki?" They violate multiple editing conventions, while examples are "technically" for tutorial pages that still doesn't change the point that they should be like wiki articles and tutorials don't do this.
"They are still articles, but instructive, not informative. " So, they aren't articles. Articles should be informative and not instructive. The goal of the wiki should be to provide information, not to provide instructions, which is impossible to do neutrally and involves a heavy amount of view and second person.
"How is this not the best place to put that information?" It isn't a place to put this information.
What drove me to this nomination is the addition of "ask your parent or guardian before downloading R". TOo much.
Naleksuh.jpg Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 06:41, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
We add the warnings so that Scratchers do not download harmful files mistakenly. Those notes are there in every article which has something about downloading.
R4356th (talk | contribs) 19:10, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Naleksuh, you are once again looking too much from the perspective of Wikipedia, whose goal is broad information on everything. We are the Scratch Wiki - we go in depth on everything that is even remotely Scratch related, because otherwise what is there to document besides events and blocks? Instructions do not violate guidelines, and tutorials are specifically given an exception on the matter of second person. As long as the article isn't coming out and saying "this is 100% the best method", then the matter of neutrality is not as important, either. It should be fairly clear that tutorials provide one way to do something.
You are far too new, and you are not a bureaucrat, and it is not up to you to decide what "the goal of the wiki" is. If we decide tomorrow that we're rebranding as a WikiHow parody instead of a Wikipedia parody, then that is our new goal and if you want something closer to your ideals then go start your own site.
I am declaring this discussion Yes Done by both unilateral decision and evident community opinion. I am removing the template - and it will stay off.
Kenny2scratch logo.jpg kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory 
20:22, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Create a list of the programming editors

It can be helpful for all users; a list for the editors, like Alternatives to the Paint Editor.
Ahmetlii logo.gif ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory 
07:05, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Is there a subdirectory for C++ already?

If not can someone create it? I'm not sure how.
Dominic305.png Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,764)  Scratch  Directory 
21:33, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

To create the category, just go to Category:C++ Tutorials. It seems there is no need to create Language Tutorials/C++, though, since Language Tutorials/Python (for example) doesn't exist. :)
Bigpuppy Logo.png bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 21:59, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Language Tutorials/<lang> pages?

Shouldn't we keep a small page describing the languages in Language Tutorials/<lang>? We have the category pages, but those only list the pages, I would think we should describe each of the languages and direct to different pages for deeper explanations.
12944qwerty Logo.png 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  17:31, 21 September 2020 (UTC)