View source for Talk:Kaj

==Doesn't follow guidelines==
Should a message be added to the top of the article mentioning that this article is an exception, and that pages should not be created about users?
--<scratchsig>PullJosh</scratchsig> 20:46, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
:See [http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Scratch_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive_62#New_template.3F this discussion].<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 02:12, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

==Gender==
Should it be mentioned that Kaj is a she? I found out from one of Lightnin's comments (that Kaj was female), but in his project called 'The Story Of Kaj', he referred to Kaj as 'they' when he did not use her [[Scratch]] name. Do you think the same should be said for the Wiki?
<scratchsig>SpiritMaster</scratchsig> 11:22, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
:I think we are using "she" here.
:Please, sign your posts with 4 tildes. <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>.<scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 11:25, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
::I did. <scratchsig>SpiritMaster</scratchsig> 11:29, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:::But you hadn't when I started editing.<scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 11:33, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

It is mentioned that she is a she. :P
{{quote|Kaj was a regular user on the Scratch Website; ''she'' joined in 2008. ''She'' originally had no intention of causing harm. However, Kaj developed a desire for more views on the [[projects]] ''she'' had created. After a while, Kaj got extremely annoyed about not getting more views and created a project threatening to destroy Scratch. After a lot of inappropriate behavior, Kaj was [[Ban|banned]] from the Scratch Website. The [[Scratch Team]] gave Kaj the opportunity to have ''her'' ban revoked. However, Kaj never replied to the Scratch Team and has not been on Scratch since.}}
Gender is italicized.<scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 11:34, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:[[User:Schism|Schism]] just edited the history, and I found out that is written as 'he/she'! Shouldn't it changed to match the rest of the page? <scratchsig>SpiritMaster</scratchsig> 15:42, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but you see, kaj had sent an e-mail to the scratch team, with the male pronoun this time, so people can't decide anymore.
<scratchsig>Knitt</scratchsig> 10:35, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
:This topic is outdated - please reply to the newest topic [[#What pronoun should this article use for kaj?|here]].{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 11:04, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

== Account ==

Should the external links link to http://scratch.mit.edu/users/Kaj ? There they can see that she is banned for themselves... :S<scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 14:43, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:Well, I don't see much point in linking to a disabled account, even if we were linking it to show that... :/ <scratchsig>Jonathanpb</scratchsig> 23:47, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

==Is there any proof of Kaj's gender?==
Just wondering :P <scratchsig>Jonathanpb</scratchsig> 08:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
:Lightnin said so. <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 08:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
::Why is it such a big deal. Lightnin said so, and I assume we can trust him. If your really so worried just change it. <scratchsig>Dazman</scratchsig> 08:33, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
:::And we all trust Lightnin :3 (lol, 3 people all editing at the same time xD) <scratchsig>Chrischb</scratchsig> 08:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Uh could you give me a link to where he said it? ^^ I thought the idea of 'she' was taken from somelia - she said that her friend claimed to be Kaj, but I just saw one of her posts saying that her friend was lying.
:::Meh, this doesn't matter much anyway... <scratchsig>Jonathanpb</scratchsig>
::::{{quote2|Nice article! Their account was created in 2008. They referred to themselves as a "she" in comments.|Lightnin (about this page XD)|[http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Lightnin/1602339 The Story of Kaj!]}} <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 08:39, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
:Ok :P <scratchsig>Jonathanpb</scratchsig> 08:45, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

== Gender changed O.o ==

I asked Lightnin if he had the comment I quoted above, but I couldn't actually expect him to, so I asked him to say it again so I could reference it. :P

He wouldn't. This also changes the {{quote|The Scratch Team gave Kaj the opportunity to have her ban revoked; however, Kaj never replied to the Scratch Team and has not been on Scratch since.|Article}} [http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Lightnin/1602339?comment=7998658 Evidence!] <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 10:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
:We Already had that statement from lightnin before... <scratchsig>Dazman</scratchsig> 10:58, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
::No, the new link.
::{{quote2|1=Well, I don't know if Kaj is a she anymore. Someone contacted us a while back to say they were Kaj, but they used the male pronoun. They had some decent evidence too (and we're really surprised that their old account had become such a big deal). We replied to ask for more info and confirm, but they never wrote back.|2=Lightnin|3=http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Lightnin/1602339?comment=7998658 }} <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 10:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
:::.............>_> just make it generic so we can stop arguing over this <scratchsig>Dazman</scratchsig> 11:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
::::We might have to, but only because it's changing. <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 11:38, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yeah let's simply not define Kaj's gender; much easier... <scratchsig>Jonathanpb</scratchsig> 05:34, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

== s/he or (s)he ==

I thought the right way was "s/he". :/ <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 05:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

: I'm familiar with using a(n), so I figured (s)he would be correct. Spending a bit of research on it, both seem to work well, as seen [[wikipedia:Gender-neutral_pronoun#.22.28S.29he.22|here]]. Scrolling down though, there's a table with examples of pronoun usage, and they choose to use "S/he". I suppose we'll use that then. Thanks for bringing this up :). <scratchsig>Lucario621</scratchsig> 21:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
::Doesn't / mean or though? I've more commonly see it as (s)he, because the parenthesis signify that the letter gets dropped. <scratchsig>Veggieman001</scratchsig> 04:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
:::She or he. <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 09:06, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
::::But that would be like she/he... it's different. <scratchsig>Veggieman001</scratchsig> 14:33, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
::: Yes, / can infer "or". In this case, s/he is just a ''condensed'' vesrion of she/he. So I still think that is the best decision. <scratchsig>Lucario621</scratchsig> 20:08, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
:::I see (s)he more commonly too!{{User:Bsteward/sig}} 21:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
::::I simply use he/she <scratchsig>XenoK_Studios</scratchsig> 21:07, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
:I believe it's just simpler to use they. It is used throughout this article.<scratchsig>Knitt</scratchsig> 14:01, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

== Deletion request ==
I understand that people have a right to know of what happens in the community, but an article of someone? First off, the rules say that you ''cannot'' make articles on certain users since they are an easy target for vandalism. Second, ''this so called Kaj wanted to be noticed.'' You're pretty much giving that dudette what she wants.
<scratchsig>Chainmanner</scratchsig> 16:05, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
:There is really a lot of sense in what you said. I suppose the main reason for that is because Kaj has cemented him/herself into Scratch legend (things like hacking accounts are unparalleled by any other user on the website on such a large scale). I've been on the site since 2008 and I remember a huge farce was made out of it; it really was an impacting string of events. On the other hand, like you said, the user wanted to get attention and we're only giving him/her prominence and self-satisfaction, even though known for the user's notoriety rather than fame. Seeing as it does go against Scratch policy, I see no reason why this should be an exception, no matter the issue. Otherwise, it is better to further amend and clarify the rules.<scratchsig>DIY</scratchsig> 16:15, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
:See [[Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive 20#Kaj]] for the discussion that lead to this articles creation. <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 21:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
:Hmm. Seems like a hard decision. Kaj never did reply back to the ST when they offered to unban her, but then again, we shouldn't make articles specifically about other users. I think we should keep it though, since the scratchers have the right to know what happened. :/ <scratchsig>Sku2000</scratchsig> 02:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
: I understand why this article seems quite out of place - after all, we don't have any other articles about users! However in the Scratch Community, we consider him/her to be a special case, because A) their actions had a big impact on the community, and B) it provides a lesson for the community about trolling. There's even a project by the ST about him that you can check out [http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Lightnin/1602339 here] - it's pretty cool! But you're generally right that we want to avoid having articles about users for the most part. :) <scratchsig>Lucario621</scratchsig> 02:27, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
:This has turned out to be an interesting evaluation; I've mentioned some points above in my first reply here, but I do see why this case could be treated as an exception. It just depends on the consensus of the ST, and if they are fine with it, then it is understandable. There's no denying though that this is a highly controversial topic and although I am slightly inclined to believe this article shouldn't be here, it is only fair so long as the ST are fine with it.<scratchsig>DIY</scratchsig> 08:54, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
::Well, the ST hasn't really commented about it, but the wiki team (including the admins) agreed that we should have an article. The ST ''knows'' about this article and the policy, so i guess it's OK by them. <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 12:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
:::The Scratch Wiki said they made an exception for this page because Kaj is so famous. Read it if you don’t believe me. <scratchsig>Forested</scratchsig> 11:10, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
::::I do think the page is not necessary,as there are already so many projects on scratch about the truth. Lightnin and other scratch team menbers have created informational projects on scratch about kaj, and that should be enough. Adding wiki pages on kaj just adds more emphasis on the "importance" of the infamous kaj, and I would like to clear as much of that as possible os scratch history. <scratchsig>Knitt</scratchsig> 04:33, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::At this point, kaj is more than just a user. Although informational projects about kaj are all well and good, none of them can be relied on as much as Wiki information can be. kaj has become a cultural phenomenon, and as such deserves a page.{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 04:58, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

:::: In any case, this page is useful because of all of these impersonator accounts. It is more of an announcement or warning that an information page. I also agree with @Kenny2scratch , Kaj is now a culture phenomenon.<scratchsig>Knitt</scratchsig> 14:06, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

== no longer on ==

Lightnin told me '''''she''''' came back with a new username. According to the article, '''''she''''' never came back. Should this be changed?<scratchsig>Curiouscrab</scratchsig> 15:16, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:Source? <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 15:28, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::Gobo Gets Phished<scratchsig>Curiouscrab</scratchsig> 21:51, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
:Even if there was proof that he said so, I honestly do not think that this should be mentioned. The paranoid may still think this dude(ette) is back just to wreck havoc. This would just resurrect something that's already and that should ''stay dead forever.''<scratchsig>Chainmanner</scratchsig> 21:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

== s/he ==

I believe s/he is informal and detracts from the general flow of prose, so therefore can be changed to "he or she" or just eliminated entirely.<scratchsig>Wes64</scratchsig> 14:13, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
:It's not so informal. See [[wikipedia:Gender-specific and gender-neutral pronouns#He or she, (s)he, etc.]] <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 14:48, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
::That article is about the pronouns, not really about discussing formality.<scratchsig>Wes64</scratchsig> 14:53, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
:::It's true that Wikipedia doesn't seem to use it much. I don't suppose it makes much of a real difference. <scratchsig>Scimonster</scratchsig> 15:30, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
:We could just use singular they; it looks better tbh. <scratchsig>veggieman001</scratchsig> 16:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
::Or "it". <scratchsig>Wes64</scratchsig> 17:30, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
:::'It' is generally not accepted because it's generally only used to talk about objects, not people; it's dehumanising. <scratchsig>veggieman001</scratchsig> 23:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
::::I was being sarcastic :D <scratchsig>Wes64</scratchsig> 01:21, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

== Now ==
I wonder what Kaj does now? I kinda want to meet her. I want to see if she is like homeless, or if she is like Bill Gates' wife. Anyone else? <scratchsig>-PRO-</scratchsig> 18:24, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
:This really isn't the kind of thing we should be talking about. This is just gossip, and no good ever comes from that.<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 18:42, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
:: Sorry. <scratchsig>-PRO-</scratchsig> 18:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
::: Me! I want to meat Kaj! <scratchsig>Forested</scratchsig> 11:11, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
: What does this have to do with the article anyway?<scratchsig>Knitt</scratchsig> 14:10, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

== Following Kaj trend? ==
Should we added a section mentioned the trend of following Kaj and commenting on his/her profile? My personal opinion, it would be interesting. I actually don't see why not- it would not make the trend more popular, since it had died a million years ago because the API needed to make that happened had been disabled by the Scratch Team. <scratchsig>Rumanti</scratchsig> 06:28, 4 April 2015 (UTC)


== KajThemoderator's Rank ==
Kajthemoderator DOES have the rank of scratcher! It says so on Kajthemoderator's page!
I can't add this because i don't know how to add images but PLEASE change it someone!https://scratch.mit.edu/users/KajTheModerator/ 
<scratchsig>Programmer1121</scratchsig> 00:09, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

== Should Kaj be capitalised? ==

In some parts, Kaj is capitalised. In others Kaj is not. Should it be all capitalised? <scratchsig>Jandrewg</scratchsig> 13:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
:I think if Kaj's username was capitalized, then yes.  At the beginning of a sentence it should be capitalized, because we capitalize the first word in a sentence.  Does anyone know if Kaj's name was capitalized?
:{{User:Purplebook163/Signature}} 23:00, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
::No, kaj's name is NOT capitalized. See [https://scratch.mit.edu/users/kaj/followers/ Kaj's followers for proof.] <scratchsig>Dpinto04</scratchsig> 19:55, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

== "Kaj is Esperanto for 'and'" ==

Is this really necessary? Why do we need that line?

<scratchsig>QuantumPixel</scratchsig> 20:21, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, I agree, that seems unnecessary.<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 01:14, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::I agree, it didn't really fit there. Maybe we could make a new section, called "trivia" or something? And put it under there?
::<scratchsig>Hamish752</scratchsig> 01:31, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
:::That doesn't relate to the main point of the article (who Kaj is and how he/she relates to Scratch), though. It's just speculation and probably just a coincidence.<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 02:42, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::::Ah, okay.
::::<scratchsig>Hamish752</scratchsig> 03:28, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::::: Readded the line in the new trivia section, I hate it when people remove my edits.
::::: {{User:PrincessPandaLover/Sig}} 13:43, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::They got rid of it again. Oh great. I found that interesting and funny, removing it doesn’t help with anything. <scratchsig>Forested</scratchsig> 11:14, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

== Why "They"? ==

Can someone explain to me why the pronoun of kaj is "they"?  It's not a plural noun...
<scratchsig>DownsGameClub</scratchsig> 22:51, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:In modern usage, "they" has developed into a gender-neutral singular pronoun. To quote [http://www.dictionary.com/browse/they?s=t dictionary.com] (definition #3), "[they is] used with an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine he or the definite feminine she."<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 01:39, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
::It can also be used for non-binary people<scratchsig>Donotforgetmycode</scratchsig> 07:04, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

== What pronoun should this article use for kaj? ==

One of the sections mentions how kaj was originally referred to as "she", but then later emailed self-referring as "he". There's also a quote that even the Scratch Team doesn't know their gender. Should the article use "he", trusting the emails? Should it use "she", trusting kaj's persona when online? Or should it use "they", playing it safe? <small>Idea mainly inspired by [[Special:Diff/193275|this edit]]</small>{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 13:54, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
:I don't trust the Scratch Team in this case. Generally, if the user hasn't said directly that they would like to use a particular set of pronouns, we should not trust any other source because it's really important that we get this right. I don't understand how an email can use pronouns to refer to the author (except, perhaps, "I was just a little boy.", which I suppose is plausible,  but that's not exactly use of <em>pronouns</em>). But it's also plausible that the Scratch Team didn't want to assign a gender to Kaj, so as to create a sense of mystery. I vote <strong>they</strong>. It is vital that we don't get their pronouns (or the pronouns in any biographies on this Wiki) wrong.<scratchsig>Jokebookservice1</scratchsig> 14:07, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
::Yeah, "they" is a catch-all that can't really be wrong but "he" or "she" (or even "he/she") can be inaccurate, which is not what should be here. I too vote '''they'''.{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 14:12, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
:::I also vote '''they'''. kaj's email is the only time we've seen them past their Scratch account; if we saw them on any other site, we could've used their pronoun there (if we knew it). And who knows, maybe kaj was a ''team'' of users. {{e|:P}} {{User:VFDan/Sig}} 15:40, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

== There aren't enough references ==

Instead of end every sentence with a citation needed template, I'd like to just note here that this is a biography, so we should really take a lot more care when making bold statements like trying to guess a user's emotions (such as anger). Every statement should have a citation, and if a Scratch Team member says "Kaj was angry", then we should write "Some Scratch Team members noted Kaj was angry" rather than saying it directly. Kaj has become such an ingrained part of Scratch culture that I wouldn't be surprised if the Scratch Team has told some untruths about Kaj in an effort to foster imagination and creativity. Thoughts?<scratchsig>Jokebookservice1</scratchsig> 14:30, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

== Inclusion in Recent Scratch Series ==

I was thinking, perhaps with the mention of Kaj starring as a character in Scratch Mystery, we should also note that they have more recently starred in Scratch Story Mode Season 2, and there have been rumors that *spoilers* the 'crazy hacker' at the end of The Scratch Saga Part 2.0 could be Kaj. (I don't think that's true, but I'll guess we'll have to wait and see.) Do you think we could add this to the article? {{User:Redglitter/Signature}}  08:08, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
:While it's all speculation, I don't think it's worth adding. When things become canon, we'll be able to have references, so add it then.{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 08:20, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
:: There's evidence with Scratch Story Mode - should I add that? {{User:Redglitter/Signature}}  12:49, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Are Scratch Story Mode and the Scratch Saga Scratch Team creations? Because if it's just rumors about a certain character of some user's story series being kaj then it's not really worth adding.{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 13:55, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
:::: No, but the main antagonist in Scratch Story Mode, which I have to say is extremely well-known, is Kaj, or is at least called Kaj. If you look at the character list here, there's proof: https://scratch.mit.edu/studios/4488099/projects/. I've given it some thought and I'm going to wait and see with the Scratch Saga, as about 90% of the comments I'd say include 'Kaj' in them. Note that I did not 'hunt' for this info as I do for a lot of articles, I'm just an addict to these series XD So it's perfectly okay if you think I shouldn't add this, I just really needed somebody's opinion. {{User:Redglitter/Signature}}  16:50, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::Scratch Story Mode being well-known doesn't excuse the fact that it isn't Scratch Team-sponsored, so I don't think this is notable enough for inclusion.{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 03:54, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::: Okay, that's fine. Just thought I'd put the idea out there. {{User:Redglitter/Signature}}  07:44, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

== “Appearances in Projects” ==

I get the feeling that the heading “Appearances in Projects” should be changed. Obviously, kaj appears in plenty of projects, even from famous Scratchers such as @WazzoTV, so I get the feeling that it could eventually be used by someone (especially one who is newer) to make it list a bunch of projects kaj was in, or it’s at least something I get the feeling someone’s going to bring up in the Community Portal at some point. Even if they don’t, I feel like it’s really weird and ambiguous that it’s even there. Should we change it? <scratchsig>Super_Scratch_Bros20</scratchsig> 01:02, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
:"Appearence in Scratch Mystery"?{{User:Dhuls/Signature}} 04:51, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
::I've renamed the section to just "Appearances" in case kaj appears in other official stuff. Hopefully the existing content of the section (but also our [[S:NOSP]] guideline) will make it clear that only official appearances are to be included.{{User:Kenny2scratch/sig}} 05:59, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

== Qwert320 ==

I think that the section "Qwert320" should be removed. It's probably unintentional, but the section seems to imply that kaj could get around his ban using the account, which isn't true. Also, neither of the citations show that the account was owned by kaj (the second one might have, but it's a dead link). <scratchsig>Jackson49</scratchsig> 05:47, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
:Yes, it's a dead link, but I can find the picture in Wayback Machine (I forgot the TinyPic link btw) <scratchsig>Tematikkp</scratchsig> 18:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

==where do i put this information?==
kaj was basicly a normal troll. he just got a lot more attention. where do i put this? <scratchsig>Mrrecordman</scratchsig> 11:18, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
:The article already pretty clearly describes that Kaj never actually hacked anyone and was just making those threats for attention. What else would you add?<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 15:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

== Kaj's project... found? ==

So it turns out that Kaj's infamous project has been [[projects:485789391|found.]] Should this be added to the article? <scratchsig>Cutebross260IsBack</scratchsig> 06:32, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
:Turns out there's a link to a studio that holds a similar project. Never mind. <scratchsig>Cutebross260IsBack</scratchsig> 01:01, 19 July 2023 (UTC)