Revision as of 21:57, 29 June 2012 by JSO (talk | contribs) (Custom bullets in lists!)

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Category:User Page

So, I was thinking of a new Category, and this one came to mind. Do you think this is a good idea?
Joletole (talk | contribs) 00:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Definently! There also could be a "Sandbox" subcategory.
Wolvesstar97 (talk | contribs) 01:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but I don't think we will be doing this. You can see a list of all of the editors on the wiki at Special:ListUsers, and from there you can go to each of their user pages (if they have one). As for sandboxes, they are not really significant enough to be categorized and organized. User pages may be useful for explaining one's history with Scratch to other editors, but they are not socially-oriented pages that deserve their own directory.
Lucario621 (talk | contribs) 02:17, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Also, please don't create new categories and make other changes to the wiki that might affect multiple pages without first getting an admin's approval (admins include Scimonster, Veggieman001, JSO, myself and a few others). Its okay to discuss/brainstorm ideas on talk pages and make mock-ups on sandboxes, but don't actually make changes to the main content of the wiki until you're given permission. If you make a mistake, we will have to undo a lot of edits, which can take a long time.
Lucario621 (talk | contribs) 02:40, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Get rid of the contents box

How do I remove a "contents" box, or move it? I want to delete the box on my talk page.
Wolvesstar97 (talk | contribs) 20:28, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

__NOTOC__, if I recall correctly.
Veggieman001 (talk | contribs) 23:28, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. That works.
Wolvesstar97 (talk | contribs) 00:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Can I use a template in a URL?

What I mean by that is can I do something like this: [[http://www.someurl.com|{{Some Template}}]]?
Technoboy10 (talk | contribs) 00:15, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, to link to an external site, you do [http://www.example.com link title], but yes, you can.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 13:57, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, I can't seem to get {{User:Technoboy10/Like My Page}} to link to User:Technoboy10/Like My Page.
Technoboy10 (talk | contribs) 15:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
It won't link on the page itself.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 15:34, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Ah, ok.
Technoboy10 (talk | contribs) 15:58, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Template:color

We could have a template:Color which shows something like this:     I'm planning to add a couple of articles on computer coloring (which model Scratch uses, translation to other models like RGB, how to make colors lighter/darker/redder). It'd also be useful in various articles which mention colors, like the Report Button and BBCode.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 10:52, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and another thing: how do I get a list of all subpages of my page?
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 12:52, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
EDIT: Forget it, I figured it out...
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 12:55, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

New curator

There's a new curator. The front page needs to be updated (Lunastar- I think)
Bobbybee (talk | contribs) 17:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Yep, Lunastar-. Updating now.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 18:47, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Replacing FAQ forum with Wiki FAQ

Here's an idea: What if we moved all of the FAQs from the forums here, and wrote some more of our own? We could add subcategories to Category:FAQ, and also add an FAQ section to the main TOC. It would be sort of like the tutorials, i guess. We could also have a template, as proposed here. What do people think of it?
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 14:57, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of replacing the FAQ forum with a wiki page. But we'd need to figure out the workflow before implementing.
For example, right now someone makes a thread, and then someone says: "Hey, that's useful! It should be in the FAQ." If mods agree, it gets moved to the FAQ forum.
In then new model, somebody makes a thread, someone says it should be FAQ'ed and then __?___ happens to contact / suggest it to wikian FAQ maintainers. If they agree, then they write an entry that summarizes the useful info. Should mods edit the first post on the thread and say "We added info from this thread to the Wiki FAQ (with a link.)? (I dunno myself if this would be a good plan - what do you guys think / recommend?) Also, what should be done about all the threads currently in the FAQ forum? (Btw, I made a minor edit to title for clarity)
Lightnin (talk | contribs) 15:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
It could be a good idea. It would be extremely hard. But, we could do it. @Lightin, I like your idea of editing the first post and saying that the question is now in the Scratch Wiki. But then, what is the point of the FAQ forum.
Joletole (talk | contribs) 15:35, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
It's a cool idea! Here's how I think we should implement it: we first make a WikiProject kind of thing where all FAQs currently at the forums are rewritten on the Wiki. Then we get an admin to archive the FAQ forums for us, and instead make a sticky under "Questions About Scratch" called "FAQs" which links to the Wiki page and lets users suggest FAQ topics. About the Wiki page itself, my personal opinion is that we use a question-answer format, so we list all the questions at the top, and they link to anchors lower down on the page with the answers. (Of course, the answers would have a link to top).
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 15:49, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't think it should be single page; that would get way too crowded. 74+ pages would work much better IMO.
@Lightnin: Due to the fact that both Lucario and i are both mods and active wiki editors, there should be a good chance of it getting caught in a report. And if they have a wiki account, they can of course just make it by themselves.
A problem is, how do we know it's authentic? In the forum setup, if you see a post by an admin, you expect that to be the true answer. In a wiki though, where contributors aren't shown on the page, though, what do we do?
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 16:02, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
You could protect the answers...
P.S. Are you getting server errors on the main site? 503's in particular?
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 16:04, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
But then it couldn't be improved.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 16:15, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Or, you could say who answered the question. Like you could say "Lucario621 answered this question." That way, people know that it came from someone they trust. (sorry Luc that I used your name, you just the first mod that popped into my head). Oh, and yeah, I am getting a lot of server errors.
Joletole (talk | contribs) 16:17, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Isn't that the point? If a mod posts an answer on the forums, nobody can change it either, but those are usually good in the first place. You can't have it both ways, allowing users to improve an answer and preventing them from changing it so that its accuracy is compromised. I would personally vote for the prior, because the Wiki should be as free as possible, and we always have rollbacks.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 16:28, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Or, we could quote the Scratch Team in answers rather than framing them ourselves.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 16:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
If the answer is posted on the original forum topic, so then it could easily be referenced. But if we write other FAQs that weren't first brought up there, we wouldn't have that. (Though how could they be FAQs?)
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 07:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
First off, sorry if I don't get the indentation / Wiki etiquette right (and feel free to correct me.:) Seems like a lot of issues have been raised above - I'll try to address them all and suggest what seems best to me. Hardmath123 - I like your plan to move FAQ thread content to the wiki, after which we archive it and put a FAQ sticky in Questions about Scratch. Q/A format seems good. We really like the way Vimeo did their FAQ, so we're thinking of making a main site FAQ page that's very similar. http://vimeo.com/help/faq/general_vimeo_questions . It might be useful if the wiki uses a similar format. Maybe we'll index the wiki FAQ page so it can appear on the main 2.0 site support page search engine results. A single FAQ page with anchors for each entry seems best to me (like Vimeo's model). re: edit privs. I'm for the open wikipedia model. If someone is making bad edits, revert and then teach them to do better / ask them to stop. re: Quoting ST answers. That's not necessary. You guys are wiki editors! Make your own, acknowledge mistakes and criticism, and then refine your answers.
Lightnin (talk | contribs) 20:03, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
When replying, you add one extra indentation to show the reply.
My problem with that is the page length. We have 74 FAQ topics on the forums, some of which are pretty long (such as the moderator summaries). To put that all on one page just seems like too much to me. Besides, i'm always looking for ways to boost our article count (1,433 right now). xP
The entire wiki should be indexed by the Scratch search engine!
I agree with keeping it open. The only protected pages are really the main page, pages transcluded there, and some high-risk templates ({{!}} {{*}} {{-}} etc).
About quoting ST answers; some of it is stuff that really should come from an administrator though. Such as stuff about the administration policies (What does the Scratch Team do when they find something inappropriate? for example).
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 12:17, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Interesting (about the indenting). How do you deal with the mega-indent problem? (We didn't like it on main site with comments, which is one reason we only do single indents in 2.0.)
Re: page length. I would suggest making much more concise FAQ entries, a paragraph or two at most. I suspect most of the FAQ threads, when mined for the important facts, contain a few sentences of useful info. To me, one of the main benefits of this project would be to provide concise versions of the info on the threads. If people want more detail after reading the FAQ entry, you can link them back to the thread. (And yes, we are thinking of indexiing the whole wiki in the search, btw. So if you want to do separate pages, that could work too, although searchers will be less likely to stumble upon other entries that might be relevant to their search.)
Re: stuff coming from admins. Just ask if you have questions, and feel free to quote as I've seen you often do. But I don't think it's always necessary to use direct quotes.
Lightnin (talk | contribs) 14:38, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
So i have a compromising idea. We can make a few pages with several FAQs in a category. If there is one that should be elaborated, we can summarize it on the page, and add a {{main}} link to it.
And we rarely actually use quotes; just summarize them and reference.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 17:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
@Lightnin: I made a mockup FAQ over here. It's based on the Vimeo one you linked with chenges to match the Wiki theme. The #linking works, too (if you want mouse-hover-darkening, an admin needs to edit some protected CSS). Enjoy! :)
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 14:01, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Cool mockup! A minor technical improvement i might suggest: instead of using the "#"s, use a standard level 4 header, with the underline added. That way it will appear in a TOC for linking. Maybe you could also include a small thing at the bottom, floated right, link directly to this section with the hash code.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 14:31, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Good idea, I'll get right on it. :D
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 14:53, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Update: I right-aligned it and gave it a tooltip.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 14:56, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Lookin' good to me! Maybe you should summarize a couple threads worth of stuff, and ask everyone for feedback on how it's looking?
Lightnin (talk | contribs) 15:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Great! I'll summarize a few (they do need summarization) and see how it looks. :D
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 13:36, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Cool mockup Hardmath123 - it looks like you put a lot of work into it! Your example looks concise and well written. However, in my opinion, we don't really need the specially designed boxes, font colors, font sizes, and gradients. I think it would be much simpler (for both reading and editing) if we followed the general style of the wiki, as used in S:FAQ. It might not be as special or fancy, but people might be linking to the FAQ and referencing it often as a resource, and over-complicating the formatting isn't necessary. The only difference from S:FAQ I would make though, is a more customized table of contents, to make it easier to switch between categories of questions - like the one used on Vimeo. I think it's best to keep things simple with a larger project like this, rather than making things too advanced. :)
Lucario621 (talk | contribs) 04:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
... but... that sounds so boring! :P
Seriously, though, a bit of formatting shouldn't hurt. It's a simple template, and I intentionally kept formatting to a minimum. I agree about a better table of contents. If someone lets me into the Wiki's CSS (not inline styles, that's a technical limitation) I can set up a cool little all-CSS menu which uses the hover pseudo-protocol to detect where the mouse is. Alternatively, we could just have a simple little collapsible navbox or Wikitable with links to all the questions, organized by category.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 09:36, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but i happen to agree with Lucario on this one. A styled TOC only would be good. The mockup you made though is a little too bright.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 18:55, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
*sigh* The TOC is not done yet. Did you really expect me to have red and blue as a color scheme? Ugh!
About the question boxes, I'm still not convinced. Having a simple template like that makes it easier to add/edit entries (there is practically no formatting code, just a simple template). It makes anchoring easier, and we can put in a "back to top" link quite easily in all the boxes, which I personally think it important in any FAQ list. Having a clickable link title which links to that question's anchor (like what you see on each forum post's timestamp) makes linking to questions really easy, all you need to do is right-click the title and copy. Also, the gradient-box looks very Scratchy, doesn't it? I thought that was a rather cool looking bit of formatting. I suppose I could remove the box and just have the header+text, but that seems a bit bland, don't you think? I mean, compare [this http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Support/Scratch_FAQ] to mine.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 05:49, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
Lol. It looks nice now. Lightnin likes it too.
There are only two questions now. a) Do we use 1 big page with everything, or a few shorter pages with general categories. b) What happens to the current FAQs in Category:FAQ?
a) I like several short pages. b) Some of them could stay, such as How Do I Get My Projects to Become Popular? and Which Forum Does My Post Go In?, but Is There a File Size Limit for a Project? doesn't seem quite significant enough with these.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 17:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Resuscitated discussion. I vote for one long page, as FAQs traditionally are. It seems unethical to intentionally bump up our article count.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 13:43, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I removed it from the archive so that we won't have duplicate archives.
So you're going for traditionalism? That's boring. It's also a very long page. The wiki used to give a warning if a page was longer than a certain amount of bytes, saying that some people could have trouble with it. If we took, even summarizing, the 74 FAQs from the forums, and the others from the official FAQ page (which is 42.5 KB), how long would it be? It would be difficult for people who have the technical abilities to find the right part to edit... And i like the growing article count. If we're doing it legitimately, i think it's fine.
Scimonster (talk | contribs)
Fine, how about we make a new page for each category, but not each FAQ? (see my TOC/mockup for what I mean)
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 15:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
P.S. This discussion is getting huge... is there some way to shrink the top? Are we allowed to make a subheading in the middle to make editing easier?
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 15:04, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I personally think that the FAQ page should be organized as Hardmath123 suggested, with one page for each category. It seems like the most practical solution for the number of FAQ questions we will probably have. The article count on the wiki is irrelevant to this decision.
Lucario621 (talk | contribs) 04:13, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Oh, i didn't mean a page for each FAQ; i eventually agreed that we didn't need that. I meant a page for each category, like you guys think. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 07:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Subpage, yes.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 10:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't really love subpages. Scratch Program FAQ, Scratch Forums FAQ, etc sounds better to me.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 10:42, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Subpages should be fine. After all, I don't think these FAQ pages should appear when the "Random Page" button is clicked (except for the one with the table of contents).
Lucario621 (talk | contribs) 22:07, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
How does this look (formatting-wise) so far? User:Hardmath123/Sandbox/faqtest
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 10:37, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Subpages appear in random page. And why not?
@Hardmath: Looking good.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 12:22, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Combining articles about similar pen blocks

I'm glad to see all of the recent editing of articles about the pen features in the Scratch program! Most of the articles that cover the individual blocks look fine, however I think there are some articles that could be combined because of their similarities. Specifically, Set Pen Color to () (number block) and Set Pen Color to () (color-picker block). The articles include relatively the same content, with the exception that they have different input types. For this reason, I think they can easily be covered in a single article, just like Turn () Degrees (blocks). Who is interested in working on this? :)
Lucario621 (talk | contribs) 22:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 10:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Set Pen Color to () (block) There you go.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 12:49, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Scratch2 Skin

I know Lucario told us not to use it yet, but can I look at the skin just so I can see the stylesheet?
Technoboy10 (talk | contribs) 12:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it should be fine. Just remember, it's not done, so the styling may change. There are actually two stylesheets it loads, the last time i checked. Just add ?useskin=scratch2 to the end of any page to use it.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 08:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Okay, thanks.
Technoboy10 (talk | contribs) 15:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

List of Scratch plugins

Do you think we could have an article on that? We could include Greasemonkey scripts like Sci's message shower, the new post count shower; sparks' image APIs, a few bookmarklets, etc. Thoughts?
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 13:51, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I think it'd be a good resource to have
Chrischb (talk | contribs) 05:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
+1 :D
What's the link to the post count shower? I didn't see it...
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 09:00, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
It's on the ATs. BRB with a link.
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 10:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
http://scratch.mit.edu/forums/viewtopic.php?id=99665
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 10:35, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll check it out when i'm able.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 10:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Custom bullets in lists!

So, currently lists look like this:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3

But they could look much better! We could replace those ugly squares with Scratch Cat silhouette thumbnails!

The code would look something like this:

.ul {list-style-image: url(img.gif)}

Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 13:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
JSO? You want to add it to scratch.css?
Use Meow.png
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 13:26, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that's what I meant; except a tad bit smaller and maybe filled in black to be less distracting. So, yeah. JSO?
Hardmath123 (talk | contribs) 14:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Look like a good idea!
Bsteward (talk | contribs)14:57, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Good idea!
Wolvesstar97 (talk | contribs) 21:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
While the wiki shouldn't always be too serious, and some simplification would be good, I don't think this change is really useful. Wiki articles use a lot of bullet points (also "nested") and replacing them all with a colorful Scratch cat would be very distracting and uncomfortable to read.
JSO (talk | contribs) 21:57, 29 June 2012 (UTC)